Suiton, Please care to explain why a HG release makes us expect a MG release? I've asked this before, and every time you fail to explain your reasoning. And I'm sorry, but saying you have "a feeling" which is based in no actual FACT is not a valid reason...
Its because Bandai loves to re-use parts, so the MG AGE-1 base would get another release. Now, I'm not going to say there's a 100% chance for it to come out, but considering how easy it would be to make it, I wouldn't be too surprised to see it in the future(the MG Full armor gundam was basically like that if I recall). I'd go on, but I think I got my point through.
Yes. Well summarized. =) Besides, Age is going to stay relevant for a little bit into 2013 so during that time, I suspect Bandai is going to pump out the rest in MG (via regular release or online exclusive).
MG Age-1 Gransa --> probably has MG Age-1 Flat if you take off armor pieces --> if they include the Zefuld Launcher parts, then it would be nice --> then people would buy at least 2 or 3 of this kit (display as Age-1 Flat, Age-1 Flat w/ Zefuld Launcher, Age-1 Gransa w/ Glastron Launcher)
MG Age-2 Double Bullet --> likely to come out after Darkhound
MG Age-2 Normal (Special Ops) --> likely recolor and release as online exclusive
Go ahead, suiton, and say something retarded like "too long, didn't read". I'll have my say anyway...
About bandai re-hashing kits, while true, they do it on POPULAR kits, like the Full Armor Unicorn (which is, in no way, the same as a Age-1 flat). Ppl would buy 3 age-1 flats? Really??? What for? Who cares about one of the lamest designs ever enough to buy 3 of them (4, if they already have the original one)? As I said countless times before, just because bandai can release something, doesn't mean they HAVE to. You seem to have no clue about what MG and HG lines are for. HG is the line where you can have endless variations, bc they are cheap, and bandai can afford to release more then one at a time. They could do so with MGs, sure, but that would flood the market. The gunpla market cannot, on average, support more then one MG per month, more then that, consumers would be divided, and sales would go down.
MGs are not cheap, ppl have to think about where to spend their hard earned money. Most consumerrs will not buy the same MGs over and over again, bc they won't go around wasting money, when they could invest in a different MG, and have a varied collection (something you seem to have a hard time getting the grasp of what it means). Except, of course, if the MS is hugelly popular (which age isn't) or perhaps a grunt, bc ppl like to costumize their grunts.
As for online exclusives, most of the ppl who buy them are hardcore collectors, bc they are very expensive. The kind of collector who perhaps PAINTS their kits. And why, then, should they spend more money on something they could easily paint themselves white?
Age has ended, and the fact they rushed out MGs while the series was still running is testament to how unpopular the series is. They have to take advantage of it still being running. We'll proly see a few more MGs, but not many...
By the way, who (besides yourself) decided that the MGs on Wishlist of Stupid(tm) are the MGs that are missing? What about the enemies? what about the grunts?
Apart from the Granasa and the Special Ops I think that he's actually kinda got it nailed DB won't become a Blast Impulse 2.0 probably because it got used a crap load more. The 3 Age-3s are probably gonna get released, but the Fore tress might be dropped ... And FX is impossible to miss And they'll probably pull a MG Destiny/SF/Exia and give it a special edition Though it better not be more then 5 dollars more expensive
If I can go by suton's line of reasoning, to be short he thinks that because a suit has an HG incarnation, its chances of being an MG are largely boosted, which I humbly think is very erroneous or at the very least baseless.
For instance, there are already many HGUCs out there which are very popular and yet haven't received an MG treatment yet, and share a lot of similarities with other suits. For example, the Blue Destiny series shares a lot in common with the Ground type Gundams. There was nothing stopping Bandai to release them in MG, but of course they still had some other things to consider and didn't push through. Maybe you would reason that they wouldn't be up to par with the latest MGs, well I beg to differ. The MG Camo GM Sniper was a rehash of the old MG GM ground type, with some added extras, but they still released anyway with just a few extras in 2007.
Though of course, I still very much agree that MG Grandsa has a high chance of getting an MG, it's just that I think that it getting an HG rendition doesn't really certify that it or or any MS for the matter, would get an MG treatment.
Well your argument is very long SOA, and I don't know if your argument takes into consideration that suiton's list does not account for any other series besides 00 and AGE. 00 (according to Gundam ACE) was pretty popular even though it initially had lower ratings than SEED and Destiny. I remember reading on a blog that Gundam AGE wasn't super popular from the start with kids since they were unfamiliar with the "nerdy kid grows up in a space colony and pilots a super powerful Gundam" trope. Hino wanted to apparently make AGE into a sort of family drama in a mech show; good and different concept that had poor execution.
But back to models, The people that collect models can't all be lumped into the category of collecting everything. Some people will have a collection of only GMs, others just Zakus. Kit sales can make or break a series. Case in point - G Gundam. The series wasn't popular when it first aired, but has gained popularity (I think) due to the kit sales and it being featured in video games. The 90s was the "Lost Decade" for Japan, and alot of things that came out in that time period weren't popular. Bandai's trying to do a sort of Wing revival by promoting their manga series through model kit production.
I don't think AGE rushed its MGs during production, they were on a one a month cycle, the industry standard. True, the manufacturing process for MG's is difficult and Bandai has different divisions for different lines. There are builders, like myself SOA, who don't paint their kits (b/c I don't have immediate access to paint nor do I have the proper space to do anything like spraying) yet I still am satisfied when I finish my kits.
Suiton, I believe SOA's main point is that your notions of gunpla ignores the longtime passionate fans of Gundam, who passed down their love of Gundam to their kids and so forth. Gundam isn't always about the newest and hippest things to come out. It's about the legacy that Mobile Suit Gundam gave to a country in the real robot genre. To SOA (I think), he is offended that you choose ignorance over having a proper debate and discussion, that you're overly biased to the new series and think that all kits that can be made to the highest quality for the most affordable price (MG line) must be built by Bandai no matter how many old school fans there are.
This post is clearly way too long for the human attention span.
Thank, blacksolar, for your very thoughtfull response. You read through my looong argument, a shall do the same for you^^. Yes, my argument takes in consideration suiton's 00 and Age MG list. That's precisely one of my points. Suiton seems to just ignore that there are other series, with NO MGs, some of them, and just wants every damn variation of Age and 00s leads (howeever obscure) in MG form, like if it were HG.
Also, his argument that Age-1 flat just needs a few tweeks here and there, so it's very easy and cheap and bandai can make a quick buck holds no ground. It just means they don't have to produce enterely new molds, just tweek the old ones, which costs on production design time. They still have to produce manuals, instruction books, boxes, and of course, the kit itself. Suiton aparently is ignorant of this.
You are right,many of us collect different stuff. But I bet you wouldn't go out of your way to buy an online exclusive. Online exclusives work like this: bandai knows the demand for these kits isn't very high, so they won't produce a regular retail version. Instead, they open a preorder period, and produce the kits based on those preorders. So, a kit has to have some impact for them to produce it. What I mean is, if a collector reeeeeally wants spec ops, they probably will consider buying the cheaper retail version, and paint it. Even those who don't paint (like rrobbert184) would consider this, bc it's a very easy custom.
As for the Age MGs, what I mean by rushed is that Age is the only series so far that had MGs (and a good number of them) released WHILE it was being aired. Age is not popular, it got very average and poor reviews, got trounced by other shows aimed at kids, rrobbert personally told me that stores are complaining about the sales and the online hobby store's (not gonna say which one, don't want to advertise) Age mega sale is testament that they hoped to sell a lot more than they did.
I'd only buy a online exclusive if I felt as though it was unique enough from its original counterpart to warrant a purchase. Case in point: GM Sniper II White Dingo Ver. Now I could get the whole kit online, or just buy the regular GM Sniper II, wait for the Builder Parts 004 to come out with the Sniper rifle, but then again I cuold also buy the Builder Parts 003 and make my own custom suit :D. And you're welcome.
You've actually met rrobbert o_o. Are you a American living in Japan SOA? B/c I know Rrob isn't actually Japanese. But I digress, A HG AGE-1 Gransa sounds like a awesome idea. You get the Flat, the Zefuld from G2, the Glastron and Gransa Armor from G3, so I do hope they release it
haha, no, I'm not even american. What I meant was, I discussed the matter with him, well not in person, but online. I wish I COULD live in japan, though ^^
That's the point, if you really want an exclusive, it has to have something that makes it exclusive. Be it the white unicorn stickers for the Zeta 2.0, the green frame fo the banshee, or your dingo. Spec Ops has nothing specil about it, except for being totally white, which you can easily make yourself (unlike the banshee, for example, for which you would have to buy a regular banshee and a unicorn Full armor. Even for your dingo, you were able to come up with a way to make it yourself, if you wanted.
Yeah, I agree, Age-1 flat as an HG is a good ideia. That's what the series-specific HG lines are for, to give you lots and lots of choice ^^
Nike wouldn't reply not bother to read it. It's actually pointless to tell him otherwise, he is entitled to his stupid 00 and Age wishlist he doesn't give a fuck about the other series. He doesn't care about the points you make.
To him everything is likely because he likes it. He thinks just because he want an Special Ops vers, he'll get one.
I'm an even more hardcore collector than Nike/Suiton is. Indeed I would like every variation of every single kit in a series I like (I like Age too), but I wouldn't go as far as to ignore reality and spam my wishlist.
Saying an MG Special Ops release is likely is the same as saying localization for thousands of Japanese RPG is likely. In both cases, no, the chances of it happening is very low because of low demand.
Nike, please use your fucking brain. You're like an ignorant fanboy who spams Halo Halo Halo all over a forum in Call of Duty just to piss people off. (I hate FPS btw, Japanese RPG are superior in my opinion).
Anon 2:11, I agree with everything you said. I would also like to have MGs of EVERYTHING in my favorite series, but I am realistic. I don't agree in one thing, though. Suiton is not a hardcore collector. He's just a hipster box collector... (who thinks hat having build 5 or 6kits out of his box collection makes him a Gunpla God. Oh, right, he has vieos of his builds, but they are on "private"... of course they are... sure...)
Hmm, I'm not supporting Nike/Suiton here but I think there could be a possibility that MG Special Ops will be released. Well, Bandai released MG Aile Strike Rouge too, which is basically a recolour of MG Aile Strike. Anyway, this is just my own thoughts and I apologize if what I wrote makes no sense. By the way, I'm sick of Nike/Suiton's immature behavior of spamming around the internet raving about his imaginary wishlist and his baseless theory about Bandai's future plans. This is the first time I saw someone as ignorant and stubborn as he is on the internet. It is true that he had a remarkable persistence but this doesn't bring him to anywhere either.
If we get a MG Age-FX, Bandai is likely going to release a MG Age-FX (Burst Mode) that'll cost like 50% more or something for like some effect parts.
If we get MG Age-3 Normal and MG Age-3 Orbital, we're going to get a MG Age-Fortress more than likely.
MG Double Bullet is a likely release after Darkhound. In terms of the Special Ops, it will be a online exclusive IMO, but it'll probably cost a bit more than the MG Age-2 Normal.
IMO Granza wont be hard to make, but if it does get a MG it will be the just the Granza with the new cannon pack at the end with the option to ditch the armor for a Flat, thats it
As for other MG kits and series I highly agree, Gundam X for example have ZERO, I repeat ZERO MGs, even some popular UC grunt suits like the Jegan don't even have a MG, and some of the beloved units definitely needs a need MG update (Im looking at you Sazabi and GP01)
Problem with Gundam X is that it wasn't that popular when it aired and it was cut short...I guess sorta like Age, but Age is sort of an exception I guess since most of the kits would be variation kits and not new molds.
I definitely think it would be nice to get MG's of the X Gundam, X Divider, and Double X.
Totally getting this. They even included they Zeyflud launcher pack. :D
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, it's Zefuld Launcher.
DeleteSecond of all, the pack that the Granza uses is called the Glastron Launcher.
Please shut up. No one likes you.
Deletehe's telling the truth, maybe he just have to learn how to properly tell it.
DeleteI'm looking forward to this! A perfect suit with enough punch for any angry grandpa. Exterminate all Vagans!
ReplyDeleteI'll wait for an MG version. this one is too good for a HG.
ReplyDeleteYes!
DeleteOh the Beginning Gundam customs I will have with this thing.
ReplyDeletegod freaking yeah!
DeleteSoooooo glad this is coming out now just hoping for G-Xiphos coming out
ReplyDeleteThis is good!!! :D
ReplyDeleteAnd I thought I was going to retire from building AGE kits. Bandai you naughty boy!
ReplyDeleteglad i m skipping age-1 normal for so long until this comes out :)
ReplyDeleteOH YES!!! The age-1 normal and this version of the age-1 were my favourites suits in the show so I really want to get this!
ReplyDeleteXD
YES! Now we can wait for a MG release!
ReplyDeleteSo I guess the Age-1 Flat w/ Zefuld Launcher could also be coming or maybe this pack will have it included?!
Suiton, Please care to explain why a HG release makes us expect a MG release? I've asked this before, and every time you fail to explain your reasoning. And I'm sorry, but saying you have "a feeling" which is based in no actual FACT is not a valid reason...
DeleteIts because Bandai loves to re-use parts, so the MG AGE-1 base would get another release. Now, I'm not going to say there's a 100% chance for it to come out, but considering how easy it would be to make it, I wouldn't be too surprised to see it in the future(the MG Full armor gundam was basically like that if I recall). I'd go on, but I think I got my point through.
DeleteYes. Well summarized. =)
DeleteBesides, Age is going to stay relevant for a little bit into 2013 so during that time, I suspect Bandai is going to pump out the rest in MG (via regular release or online exclusive).
MG Age-1 Gransa
--> probably has MG Age-1 Flat if you take off armor pieces
--> if they include the Zefuld Launcher parts, then it would be nice
--> then people would buy at least 2 or 3 of this kit (display as Age-1 Flat, Age-1 Flat w/ Zefuld Launcher, Age-1 Gransa w/ Glastron Launcher)
MG Age-2 Double Bullet
--> likely to come out after Darkhound
MG Age-2 Normal (Special Ops)
--> likely recolor and release as online exclusive
MG Age-3 Normal, Orbital, Fortress
--> obvious releases
MG Age-FX
--> obvious release
--> i suspect they're gonna give it a Burst FX version version much like MG Exia and MG Exia Ignition Mode
None of this has answered my question.
DeleteGo ahead, suiton, and say something retarded like "too long, didn't read". I'll have my say anyway...
About bandai re-hashing kits, while true, they do it on POPULAR kits, like the Full Armor Unicorn (which is, in no way, the same as a Age-1 flat). Ppl would buy 3 age-1 flats? Really??? What for? Who cares about one of the lamest designs ever enough to buy 3 of them (4, if they already have the original one)? As I said countless times before, just because bandai can release something, doesn't mean they HAVE to. You seem to have no clue about what MG and HG lines are for. HG is the line where you can have endless variations, bc they are cheap, and bandai can afford to release more then one at a time. They could do so with MGs, sure, but that would flood the market. The gunpla market cannot, on average, support more then one MG per month, more then that, consumers would be divided, and sales would go down.
MGs are not cheap, ppl have to think about where to spend their hard earned money. Most consumerrs will not buy the same MGs over and over again, bc they won't go around wasting money, when they could invest in a different MG, and have a varied collection (something you seem to have a hard time getting the grasp of what it means). Except, of course, if the MS is hugelly popular (which age isn't) or perhaps a grunt, bc ppl like to costumize their grunts.
As for online exclusives, most of the ppl who buy them are hardcore collectors, bc they are very expensive. The kind of collector who perhaps PAINTS their kits. And why, then, should they spend more money on something they could easily paint themselves white?
Age has ended, and the fact they rushed out MGs while the series was still running is testament to how unpopular the series is. They have to take advantage of it still being running. We'll proly see a few more MGs, but not many...
By the way, who (besides yourself) decided that the MGs on Wishlist of Stupid(tm) are the MGs that are missing? What about the enemies? what about the grunts?
Apart from the Granasa and the Special Ops
DeleteI think that he's actually kinda got it nailed
DB won't become a Blast Impulse 2.0 probably because it got used a crap load more.
The 3 Age-3s are probably gonna get released, but the Fore tress might be dropped ...
And FX is impossible to miss
And they'll probably pull a MG Destiny/SF/Exia and give it a special edition
Though it better not be more then 5 dollars more expensive
If I can go by suton's line of reasoning, to be short he thinks that because a suit has an HG incarnation, its chances of being an MG are largely boosted, which I humbly think is very erroneous or at the very least baseless.
DeleteFor instance, there are already many HGUCs out there which are very popular and yet haven't received an MG treatment yet, and share a lot of similarities with other suits. For example, the Blue Destiny series shares a lot in common with the Ground type Gundams. There was nothing stopping Bandai to release them in MG, but of course they still had some other things to consider and didn't push through. Maybe you would reason that they wouldn't be up to par with the latest MGs, well I beg to differ. The MG Camo GM Sniper was a rehash of the old MG GM ground type, with some added extras, but they still released anyway with just a few extras in 2007.
Though of course, I still very much agree that MG Grandsa has a high chance of getting an MG, it's just that I think that it getting an HG rendition doesn't really certify that it or or any MS for the matter, would get an MG treatment.
DeleteWell your argument is very long SOA, and I don't know if your argument takes into consideration that suiton's list does not account for any other series besides 00 and AGE. 00 (according to Gundam ACE) was pretty popular even though it initially had lower ratings than SEED and Destiny. I remember reading on a blog that Gundam AGE wasn't super popular from the start with kids since they were unfamiliar with the "nerdy kid grows up in a space colony and pilots a super powerful Gundam" trope. Hino wanted to apparently make AGE into a sort of family drama in a mech show; good and different concept that had poor execution.
DeleteBut back to models, The people that collect models can't all be lumped into the category of collecting everything. Some people will have a collection of only GMs, others just Zakus. Kit sales can make or break a series. Case in point - G Gundam. The series wasn't popular when it first aired, but has gained popularity (I think) due to the kit sales and it being featured in video games. The 90s was the "Lost Decade" for Japan, and alot of things that came out in that time period weren't popular. Bandai's trying to do a sort of Wing revival by promoting their manga series through model kit production.
I don't think AGE rushed its MGs during production, they were on a one a month cycle, the industry standard. True, the manufacturing process for MG's is difficult and Bandai has different divisions for different lines. There are builders, like myself SOA, who don't paint their kits (b/c I don't have immediate access to paint nor do I have the proper space to do anything like spraying) yet I still am satisfied when I finish my kits.
Suiton, I believe SOA's main point is that your notions of gunpla ignores the longtime passionate fans of Gundam, who passed down their love of Gundam to their kids and so forth. Gundam isn't always about the newest and hippest things to come out. It's about the legacy that Mobile Suit Gundam gave to a country in the real robot genre. To SOA (I think), he is offended that you choose ignorance over having a proper debate and discussion, that you're overly biased to the new series and think that all kits that can be made to the highest quality for the most affordable price (MG line) must be built by Bandai no matter how many old school fans there are.
This post is clearly way too long for the human attention span.
Thank, blacksolar, for your very thoughtfull response. You read through my looong argument, a shall do the same for you^^.
DeleteYes, my argument takes in consideration suiton's 00 and Age MG list. That's precisely one of my points. Suiton seems to just ignore that there are other series, with NO MGs, some of them, and just wants every damn variation of Age and 00s leads (howeever obscure) in MG form, like if it were HG.
Also, his argument that Age-1 flat just needs a few tweeks here and there, so it's very easy and cheap and bandai can make a quick buck holds no ground. It just means they don't have to produce enterely new molds, just tweek the old ones, which costs on production design time. They still have to produce manuals, instruction books, boxes, and of course, the kit itself. Suiton aparently is ignorant of this.
You are right,many of us collect different stuff. But I bet you wouldn't go out of your way to buy an online exclusive. Online exclusives work like this: bandai knows the demand for these kits isn't very high, so they won't produce a regular retail version. Instead, they open a preorder period, and produce the kits based on those preorders. So, a kit has to have some impact for them to produce it. What I mean is, if a collector reeeeeally wants spec ops, they probably will consider buying the cheaper retail version, and paint it. Even those who don't paint (like rrobbert184) would consider this, bc it's a very easy custom.
As for the Age MGs, what I mean by rushed is that Age is the only series so far that had MGs (and a good number of them) released WHILE it was being aired. Age is not popular, it got very average and poor reviews, got trounced by other shows aimed at kids, rrobbert personally told me that stores are complaining about the sales and the online hobby store's (not gonna say which one, don't want to advertise) Age mega sale is testament that they hoped to sell a lot more than they did.
Again, thx for the thoughtfull words
I'd only buy a online exclusive if I felt as though it was unique enough from its original counterpart to warrant a purchase. Case in point: GM Sniper II White Dingo Ver. Now I could get the whole kit online, or just buy the regular GM Sniper II, wait for the Builder Parts 004 to come out with the Sniper rifle, but then again I cuold also buy the Builder Parts 003 and make my own custom suit :D. And you're welcome.
DeleteYou've actually met rrobbert o_o. Are you a American living in Japan SOA? B/c I know Rrob isn't actually Japanese. But I digress, A HG AGE-1 Gransa sounds like a awesome idea. You get the Flat, the Zefuld from G2, the Glastron and Gransa Armor from G3, so I do hope they release it
haha, no, I'm not even american. What I meant was, I discussed the matter with him, well not in person, but online. I wish I COULD live in japan, though ^^
DeleteThat's the point, if you really want an exclusive, it has to have something that makes it exclusive. Be it the white unicorn stickers for the Zeta 2.0, the green frame fo the banshee, or your dingo. Spec Ops has nothing specil about it, except for being totally white, which you can easily make yourself (unlike the banshee, for example, for which you would have to buy a regular banshee and a unicorn Full armor. Even for your dingo, you were able to come up with a way to make it yourself, if you wanted.
Yeah, I agree, Age-1 flat as an HG is a good ideia. That's what the series-specific HG lines are for, to give you lots and lots of choice ^^
Nike wouldn't reply not bother to read it. It's actually pointless to tell him otherwise, he is entitled to his stupid 00 and Age wishlist he doesn't give a fuck about the other series. He doesn't care about the points you make.
DeleteTo him everything is likely because he likes it. He thinks just because he want an Special Ops vers, he'll get one.
I'm an even more hardcore collector than Nike/Suiton is. Indeed I would like every variation of every single kit in a series I like (I like Age too), but I wouldn't go as far as to ignore reality and spam my wishlist.
Saying an MG Special Ops release is likely is the same as saying localization for thousands of Japanese RPG is likely. In both cases, no, the chances of it happening is very low because of low demand.
Nike, please use your fucking brain. You're like an ignorant fanboy who spams Halo Halo Halo all over a forum in Call of Duty just to piss people off. (I hate FPS btw, Japanese RPG are superior in my opinion).
Please stop your nonsense you brat
Anon 2:11, I agree with everything you said. I would also like to have MGs of EVERYTHING in my favorite series, but I am realistic. I don't agree in one thing, though. Suiton is not a hardcore collector. He's just a hipster box collector... (who thinks hat having build 5 or 6kits out of his box collection makes him a Gunpla God. Oh, right, he has vieos of his builds, but they are on "private"... of course they are... sure...)
DeleteHmm, I'm not supporting Nike/Suiton here but I think there could be a possibility that MG Special Ops will be released. Well, Bandai released MG Aile Strike Rouge too, which is basically a recolour of MG Aile Strike. Anyway, this is just my own thoughts and I apologize if what I wrote makes no sense. By the way, I'm sick of Nike/Suiton's immature behavior of spamming around the internet raving about his imaginary wishlist and his baseless theory about Bandai's future plans. This is the first time I saw someone as ignorant and stubborn as he is on the internet. It is true that he had a remarkable persistence but this doesn't bring him to anywhere either.
Delete@William Su
DeleteIf we get a MG Age-FX, Bandai is likely going to release a MG Age-FX (Burst Mode) that'll cost like 50% more or something for like some effect parts.
If we get MG Age-3 Normal and MG Age-3 Orbital, we're going to get a MG Age-Fortress more than likely.
MG Double Bullet is a likely release after Darkhound. In terms of the Special Ops, it will be a online exclusive IMO, but it'll probably cost a bit more than the MG Age-2 Normal.
I read through all of this XD
ReplyDeleteIMO Granza wont be hard to make, but if it does get a MG it will be the just the Granza with the new cannon pack at the end with the option to ditch the armor for a Flat, thats it
As for other MG kits and series I highly agree, Gundam X for example have ZERO, I repeat ZERO MGs, even some popular UC grunt suits like the Jegan don't even have a MG, and some of the beloved units definitely needs a need MG update (Im looking at you Sazabi and GP01)
Problem with Gundam X is that it wasn't that popular when it aired and it was cut short...I guess sorta like Age, but Age is sort of an exception I guess since most of the kits would be variation kits and not new molds.
DeleteI definitely think it would be nice to get MG's of the X Gundam, X Divider, and Double X.