Wednesday, August 22, 2012

Gundam: Looking at the franchise's future

Gundam: Looking at the franchise's future 
By Team GG Falldog
With Gundam AGE wrapping up in the next six weeks or so and the mysterious Gundam: The Origin just off the horizon (I'm not sure Bandai has revealed how they're going to do the adaption yet) I thought it would be a good time to sit down and discuss just what we want from one of our favorite franchises.
Below are some of my personal ramblings about what the series has been lacking as of late along with what it needs moving forward.


Make the story the most important aspect

Every series strives for something, whether it be to tell a story, comment on society, showcase animation, etc. Typically the shows which stick with us though the years focused on the story, the characters, and did so in a quality way (e.g. Cowboy Bebop, Planetes). Over the years Gundam as a franchise has shifted more from that dynamic to a vehicle to drive product sales. It's a case most evident by how Bandai treated Gundam AGE. Products accompanying the series were announced early and many of the new designs to show up in the series were revealed on screen, but as merchandise. Save for a huge twist at the end many will likely remember the series as having a strong premise, some good designs, but a below average with every other facet.
If Bandai wants to recapture their core audience they need to focus on crafting a story that keeps people hungering for more. Currently airing along with AGE is a sequel to the much loved Eureka Seven, Eureka Seven: AO. Now AO is not a perfect series, like any show it has its critics. Yet each week it draws in egar viewers. I don't know the numbers enough to say whether it's more or less than AGE but the viewers a lot more enthusiastic about the program. It's easy to complain about AO's somewhat confusing and non-straightforward plot but that is what keeps people coming back. Throw in some good animation along with characters whom have various and sometimes complex motives and you got yourself a hit.
Gundam likes to fall back on its core concepts, mainly people from space v. people from Earth. At this point it seems tired, rundown, generic. Gundam 00 tried to bring some new concepts to town and, for the most part, they worked. Unfortunately during the second season things fell apart. And that's not including the introduction of aliens in Trailblazer.
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Make characters the second most important aspect

This should go without saying but I feel the need to comment on it just the same. Let's get some real, relate-able, complex, and interesting characters. I know I'm referencing Gundam AGE quite a bit but the series is full of random, relatively unimportant characters, who show up and disappear a few episodes later. Gundam AGE has zero memorable characters, 00 has maybe three (one for wanting to be a Gundam, one for being apart of Team Rocket, and another who went full retard in the second season) and SEED felt like watching a MTV reality show.
Oh, and as was suggested on r/Gundam, why not a female protagonist? Or at least strong willed love interest whom doesn't bitch and moan the whole time. In general it would be nice to see a return of a well rounded protagonist. Bandai sure loves to focus on pilots who don't want to fight for half the series.

Step up the maturity

Remember when important characters died meaningful deaths? Or when an important character died a fruitless death 'cause that's how shit is sometimes? Those were the good ol' days.
Things have become too sanitized. I'm not sure if it's just because Bandai is trying for a younger demographic or whether they've completely forgotten that the core of the franchise is people in mecha fighting in a war. I'm not calling for blood and guts all over the place, maybe just the occasional woman getting bonked by a casing. At the very least treat conflict as it harsh as it can be, no more trying to save every grunt on the battlefield.

Don't skimp on the animation

Though the Gundam Unicorn story has some weak edges the Gundam community as a whole eagerly looks forward to each episode, if only for the spectacular animation. The attention to detail is fantastic, from control interfaces to how weapons interact with various surfaces. Okay, I admit, that's rather impractical for a television series. Yet Bandai should strive for that compared to the often simplistic CGI and, at times, horrid hand drawn animation we've been seeing lately.
Gundam AGE is guilty of some horrible animation at times. The screenshot below is from the debut of one of the best designed suits in the series. Though, you wouldn't be able to tell that from watching the action sequences in that episode. And yes, I know that animating action sometimes requires odd things to be done but this horribleness was apparently immediately...
 Now compare to that to an action shot from Gundam 0083...

Yes, it is going to cost more to produce and take more time but a series that's well done stays with relevant longer and has a much bigger impact.

Compose a strong soundtrack

This should also go without saying and effects a lot of shows, not just Gundam. So much forgettable music these days.

Keep things relatively realistic

No more magic space dust.
A lot of people like to credit Mobile Suit Gundam as being the first realistic mecha show. When you watch it under that guise in modern times it quickly becomes quite apparently how unrealistic it really is. Part of that is due Minovsky particles, the original magic space dust, that not only prevents effective battlefield communication (an important limiting factor for the series) but provides for abundant power and a conduit for newtype hijinks. As silly as it might be, it's generally been handled with a certain level of rationality and has quite the support structure. On the other hand you have Gundam 00 which has become somewhat infamous due to its deus ex machina use of GN particles.
Keeping things somewhat realistic will help shift the franchise back away from questionable anti-gravity physics and nonsensical space ship design. Personally I'm a lot more interested in a show when the supporting mechanical elements are not only well designed but practical.

Expand UC?

Universal Century has the largest committed Gundam fan base and has one of the richest most expanded universes in Anime. Unfortunately it's also become one of the most convoluted continuities with shoehorned sub stories and content of questionable cannon. Within the time frame we all know there's not a whole lot of meat left on the bone. That's why it's time to expand the universe beyond Earth Sphere. No, I'm not talking about jumping between galaxies pitting the Earth Federation against Zeon aliens. No, there's plenty to work with within our own solar system.
While generally focused on Earth and the surrounding area the franchise has featured armies hanging around the asteroid belt, expeditions to Jupiter, and most recently attempted colonization of Mars. Instead of letting it just be an interesting plot point the series should ***** Doing so would allow a series to start off without having to recreate the whole universe from scratch and build upon the work of authors past.
Set the series in UC 200 or so. Humans have colonized Mars (and no stupid Mars cancer this time) have colonies and mining facilities around Jupiter and Venus. Expeditions have been launched to Saturn and the our reaches. Imagine a character who grew up on a Jovian facility who finds himself in in the middle of a power struggle over Mars? Not only is there room to implement the future of Zeon and the Earth Federation but it also opens the door for a much larger political conflict. The concerns of Earthlings and spacenoids still exist but are muddied by being Martian, Earthling, Jovian, etc.
Of course this is going to mean knocking some things from the UC timeline, most notably Victory Gundam. A small price to pay so that the future of the universe doesn't feature space tires. If need be just consider Gundam: The Origin the start of a new continuity. Start there, jump to the future, leave room to incorporate the events post One Year War through Unicorn. Hell, it would even allow for someone to back and rework Gundam ZZ.
The biggest concern would be how to handle newtypes. At the rate things are going by UC 200, with a significant portion of the Human population living in space, you'd think newtypes would be everywhere. Maybe there are, maybe there's a conflict with oldtypes, there are a lot of different ways to handle it. While it's an important part of the franchise I don't think anyone wants it to become overloaded with crazy newtype powers.

I've had more thoughts over the past few months but that's all I can recall right now. I'm sure someone will swoop in shortly and post a much more eloquent piece on the future of the franchise and make me look silly. As you should though. With any luck positive feedback will one day make it back to the folks in charge of the franchise and let things head in a different direction.

Article by Team GG Falldog @ Otaku Revolution


98 comments:

  1. Funny how you defended AGE so much first time it was announced. Also this looks like typical whining at /m/. But i'm sure someone's gonna post this on /m/ soon enough.

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    1. I gave /m/ the benfit of doubt, waiting to see how things went. Since then the story has been pretty bland and uninteresting. For the most part I still don't have an issue with the designs, mecha or character.

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    2. /m/ is full of GAY people now. As a matter of fact, the whole 4chan is GAY and full of retards. So I don't think you would get any feedbacks from them excepts whines and groans

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    3. So your feedback is "EVERYONES A FAG THEY CAN'T THINK?" I'm pretty sure that is not good feedback. Just because people browse 4chan doesn't immediately made them act like utter retards. That is something you have to decide to do for yourself. Which is clear the above poster has decided is the only course of action right for them.

      AGEs biggest problem is it refuses to commit to any one story line and then throws its self into a bad arc in a last ditch attempt to find something to do with the next set of episodes. Look at the most recent episodes with the Traitor, its a 3 episode arc which leads absolutely no where and ultimately did nothing to move the plot forward. If AGE just committed to the 3 generation story and held its self together it would of been an interesting story (One is badly damaged, one just wants balance and the other wants to end all fighting in an unrealistic way is a great final arc), but instead it muddles around and then characters suddenly switch motivations (Zeheart and Asem both suffer badly from this.)

      I would disagree saying AGE has no meaningful characters though. Woolf was a great character and stood out way above the rest of the cast. Its just a shame AGE wastes him for little more than repainting AGE 2 to make more cash. He could of been a lot more than he was, but even so hes still one of the best Gundam veterans who will be sacrificed.

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  2. I think the maturity aspect is a big problem lately. It impacts both the story and the characters.
    For once I would like to see a character who doesn't want understanding and who just wants to survive a war that can take anyone at any time (like that shell casing you mentioned).
    Gundam has been using the "one person to change the outcome of war" aspect too much these days. I feel they need to make the main character a part of something bigger and not just a swiss army knife of a pilot who can accomplish everything.

    A return to pre-digital animation quality would also be great. I love the way they used shading in older anime, now its all just 1 tone shading on basic colours.

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    1. Why is there too much focus on "understanding each other" in Gundam lately? "Understanding each other" is overrated and deeply flawed concept. Let us say that we perfectly understand each other. Will that "understanding" benefit me or is it in my best INTEREST?

      Ribbons understood what Setsuna, Tiera etc. wanted. He didn't want that "understanding" because it was against his own interest.

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    2. Exactly! "Understanding" in gundam implies that everyone wants peace. Some people dont, some want to kill, some want a miltary promotion and some will just do their job instead of listening to an enemy's propaganda.

      For a metaseries that is meant to show that war is bad they have definitely lost the ability to SHOW it. Now its just a slogan of protagonists that you must accept or shut up.

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  3. Some good things here. but harping on Age a bit to much.. While I have the same complaints.. its a kids show.. trying to get new people in the fold.. which I appreciate. It has a brilliant concept, one which if they turned it a bit darker, would be an Epic series.. but I digress

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    1. It's easy to look at AGE since it's the active program and something Bandai is putting their full marketing force behind.

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  4. For a moment I thought that the G-Exes up there was the G-Bouncer. But yeah, even Unicorn has this Animation Fail problem, so it's not limited to TV series anymore.

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  5. Reading this made me remember the time I read Ngee Khiong's last post.

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  6. Gundam Age was not my cup of tea especially when it came to the story department or the suits them selfs. I found my self going back to the old series and the side Ms stories. I hope we get a bad ass series in the near future.

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    1. Badass with beams and lasers, or...?

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    2. Mobile Suit Gundam Blade?? XD Kind of similar to Gundam KATANA though

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    3. Or with ripped arm smashing in the face.

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  7. I will not say everything about story of AGE, I admit it that AGE has been turned worse at 2nd gen with useless character and Kio Yamato. But you are wrong when compared AGE with Stardust Memory. Hey, you compared TV series and OVA, why you not compared it with 00 TV series too?

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  8. Japan loves their angsty, conflicted protagonists, so i guess we can't expect anything new there, but it can be pulled off nicely if done properly (think transformers animated optimus.)

    as for designs, the 70s-80s real robot designs look really appealing to me, but then again each has their own aesthetic preference. i love the rx-78 but some people simply think it is too boring without giant beam spam guns and energy wings.

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  9. I didn't get the sense that GG defended AGE when it was pre-launching. "Guys give it a chance..." kind of mentality was what I was getting. When I saw the new designs and characters, I threw my hands up but GG remained positive and did say it was gonna be a kiddie show, people are gonna throw their hands up but its a marketing angle. Great food for thought GG.

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  10. it's because audience do not like anything classified as common sense..

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  11. honestly I don't mind AGE, i like its mech designs and the story is so so, its a C+, it certainly isn't bad per say.
    i do find it weird so many people dislike 00 i enjoyed both seasons (i just pretend the movie doesn't exist) its a story about trying to forcefully change the world and its ramifications.
    what Bandai could do in the future to really bring things back to glory though imo is do crossbone gundam its a glorious manga with fantastic designs,story and characters.

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    1. LOL. I also pretend that 00 ends at season 2. I do not like aliens with my Gundams (unless it's in a crossover)

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  12. Personally I think it would be cool if Sunrise made a Crossbone Gundam OVA, or maybe they could make gundam series with more strong female protagonists. If I remember right, the only female gundam protagonist I can think of was Christina Mackenzie, and I'm not even sure if she is the protagonist. Like I said before, gundam is the same timeless story of the hell that war is, and it is a lesson that everyone should try to learn. I feel that every gundam series I've watched has triggered a change in me, and I feel that Gundam can do the same for others

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  13. they have to stop using 14 years old protagonists

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    1. well, if his/her is someone like Judau or Usso, I don't mind. They're kickass

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  14. It would cool if Sunrise made a Gundam Franchise with new techonolgy better than 00 technology...

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  15. good points GG i cant agree more

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  16. you say its tired but you also dont like the introduction of aliens? sooo, what is it really?

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  17. The first Gundam was EPIC because it was the trendsetter of realistic mecha warfare with twists of fates, politics and tragics.

    Zeta and ZZ are more based on teenage angst and rebellious natures of young people towards the dominating adults

    Nu and F91 are basically SCANDALOUS with history of internal corruptions and power abuses that turn both potential shows into flops. Crossbone is just an example of lame cover-ups.

    G Gundam is trying to ride on the Street Fighter popularity but ended up becoming a freak show circus act

    Wing is like the Backstreet Boys or Boyzone of Gundam, which are proven to be more popular among female fan groups

    SEED franchise are nothing more but rehashed old works because Bandai is too cheap to come up with better designs and animes

    00 tries to copy Wing's boy group formula but the whole thing gone out of control and become the most GAY Gundam anime in history

    At the end of the day, whether what is Gundam's next step actually lies in Bandai's next plan for their money making strategy. I don't really expect Bandai to be able to come up with something epic for Gundam since profit is their priority, not creativity and good story plots.

    We might see more innovations in Gunpla and toy making from Bandai, but we won't see anything new coming up in the Gundam franchise. Therefore, I guess the best way to rejunevate Gundam is to SHUT DOWN the entire Gundam franchise to do some serious soul searching

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    1. Funny GG posted this after my comment in the c-box

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  18. Gundam 00 S1 airs - fans whine its too different and 'not gundam'
    Gundam 00 S2 airs - fans whine just a rehash of old gundam
    Gundam 00 Movie - fans whine its too different and 'not gundam'

    LOL Make up your mind fans!

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    1. 00 revitalized the alternate universe end of the gundam franchise. wing was good, g gundam was alright (it was also a different kind of gundam) and turn a was weird but was supposed to be weird and different.

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  19. Finally someone from Team GG that dares to post his opinions on the website.
    Good read, and I agree with much of what you said.

    IMO, 00 could have become one of the best Gundam Series had it not been for its horrible Season 2.
    Honestly, 00 S1's second half was extremely good when everything started kicking in. Only to be followed by the abysmal S2 where everything just became dumb.

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  20. I think many Gundam fans are putting their expectations in the wrong franchise. Gundam has never been that ultra gritty show fans want it to be (except in OVAs).

    Watch Broken Blade, its more real robot than anything in Unicorn.

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    1. Gundam is one of few robot shows licensed in the west therefore people put all their hopes on it expecting it to be like mechwarrior or transformers so you have an extremely polarised fanbase who all want different things.

      I think maybe in Japan, if someone doesn't like the ideas in Gundam, there many other robots shows that are easily accessible and fit their taste.

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  21. It could be great if Sunrise made a Crossbone Tv series and follow it with an ova of steel 7. Cuz in my opinion it has great story ,nice characters, deferant approach, cool mobile sutis and It would do F91 justice

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  22. Crossbone OVA sounds like a pretty good idea to continue into the future! Expansion of the UC would definitely get the attention of old fans and who knows, maybe a new fan base from AGE too. With the first 100 years of UC near completion, it may now be the time to bridge the gap between Unicorn and F91 (or Hathaway's Flash to F91, etc). F91 was truly new after Char's Counterattack, now I want to learn of the world that came to be after Zeon.

    If Sunrise were to come up with a completely new series, I think AGE had a lot of successful MS designs that can go onto inspiring future designs like the G-Exes and Bouncer. Story wise, I hope they can do better lol. But gotta admit, AGE went better since 2nd series.

    But for now, we must wait for AGE to finish and for Unicorn to make its glorious epic ending (saddening to think about it).

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  23. gundam 00 movie sucks??? personally I don't think so, it's just you that you didn't understand the true meaning of the movie. then from what I've understand among you gundam "fans" you always complain all about in little things and then make it big (facepalm). you're never satisfied on anything. personally i think gundam 00 is a good series and season 2 isn't a let down imo. most of you are just UC die hard fan which are afraid of changes/ new things,

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    1. I agree, I liked the movie as well. It wasn't perfect but I think it successfully concludes the 00 saga. I think many people are too quick to jump onto the hate bandwagon and didn't pay enough attention to the story. And what's the point of an AU if its not different right?

      If it was aliens in UC, I'd be concerned since there was no buildup to it but that's not the case here.

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    2. personally i love the first season more than the 2nd, though im not saying that the 2nd sucks or anything like that.. as for the movie, haven´t watched yet haha.. another defense to the 00 series is that i think gn particle is necessary.. it might be imba but celestial being loses greatly in terms of number (4 againts millions seriously).. the only bad point of season 2 is how 00 raiser is beyond overpowered and the ms capable of matching it only appeared like in the last episode..

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    3. 00 raiser is strong but some of the 'overpowered' moments were not really combat-related. Maybe its the presentation but I never got the feeling 00 was invincible, Setsuna gets ganged up on a few times and had to rely on his friends unlike Kira who was untouchable in SEED.

      I find 00 a series that's all in the details. I really didn't like the show at first but on a second watch (S1>S2>Movie) I learned to appreciate it for what it is.

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    4. Aiolia's plan: armed intervention for human unity, then preparing for "next dialogue". When humanity are united, will they fighting each other like before? No. Then what's the meaning of the unity for? For the upcoming of another being from outer space.

      I think that's reasonable, because if Aiolia to had tell that before his plan accomplished, he will be a laughing stock for people who still fighting each other

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    5. oh finally I've found somebody here who speak my language! :D
      well about the 00 raiser, I've never thought that it is an overpowered gundam, it's just the pilot who makes the different, and I think setsuna in every battle he engage he find a solution different situuations; and he isn't a "perfect" gundam pilot/main character from the very beginning but there's a character development (for example: regretting from believing Ali and his conversation with graham aker in the final ep of season 1). if it was an "overpowered" gundam why it has been (nearly) destroyed then in the last ep of season 2? an "overpowered" gundam/ MS can't be destroyed imo

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    6. exactly my point, the only ms who can match 00 raiser appeared in the last episode (the reason why both are destroyed in the end).. the imba ness of 00 raiser is however compensated with the fact that they are fighting millions of grunts with only 4 people.. but then again it´s a matter of opinion haha..

      anyway who´s speaking what language?

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  24. Keeping things realistic...... That would also involve on how MS pilots act in combat. If MS pilots acted like real military professionals this is how they would talk:
    Professional Pilot: Target engaged..........Target destroyed. (in a monotone voice)
    --and not--
    Kamille: KISAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

    AND no real pilot talks to their enemy in open radio!

    Heck even commercial airline pilots are calmer than all MS pilots even under great stress. I would like to say is that more realistic you want Gundam to be, the less suitable it would be for television.

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    1. Heero and Setsuna (starting out) would be the most realistic protagonists in the franchise.

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    2. Heero is closer to realistic but not realistic itself. I would discount Setsuna because of the 00 movie.

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    3. That is true except that Kamille Is NOT a solider or was even in the military to begin with so it is realistic for a teenage to act like that when someone they knew DIES on the battlefield. Herro and Setsuna are different since they where trained for war.

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  25. You know the last Gundam series I actually felt like I was watching something that made me feel like watching a GOOD Gundam series and had effort was Stargazer AND THAT WAS ONLY 45 MINUTES! It's sad to think in 2 minutes of that series they already had MORE character development then ALL of Destiny. Since with Stargazer why do you think so many people who hate seed liked Stargazer. Because it had those elements Falldog is saying. Story, Characters and Animation. Stargazer I wished was the sequel to Seed and a lot people would have liked the show. (If they kept it as good as t was in those 45 minutes) I liked this post gG should post things like this more often.

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    1. Fighting an MS (even a lowly Ginn) with a tank was awesome.

      A Gundam getting mauled by quadrupeds was fun to watch.

      A Gundam running out of batteries and getting shot down by a multitude of grunts seems to be something out of a western movie.

      Finally, 2 Gundams duking it out get thrown off thousands of miles from the nearest satellite with low oxygen and power. Classic

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    2. I am planning on more articles in the future. Any requests?

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    3. Not sure really, but whatever you come up I would be happy to check out.

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    4. What about Japan vs western fans of Gundam

      Why do you think shows like SEED/DESTINY are popular there but seem to be derided by fans in the west.

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  26. If the trend in late 00s (not series) is still in, just throw a series with twists every now and then, while keeping the human drama (while in giant robot battle ofc), people will eat it up. They want something witty and engaging that's worth their time, yet not hard to understand. Age felt bare with their "100 year war" (the young target also didn't help) and 00 has spent most its twists in S1 (00 S2 also kept their drama outside the mobile suits, while putting the crazy things in Mobile Suits; see why people like to bash it).

    Nostaligia can only work once in a while, not continuously. That's why Timeline Side-Stories are only OVAs.

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  27. The 1st Gundam was great, it gave us something new to mecha where there is no real good vs evil plot. It's just 2 countries at war with a bunch of kids that got drafted.

    Zeta had a similar formula (And of course, every succeeding title), but Z's was more tragic. ZZ started out light and fun but eventually got darker during the final episodes.

    CCA was basically a rematch between the OYW veterans with complicated love triangles and a tragic young character thrown in. Every story from beyond this up to before V were filled with complicated plots that explored the politics of the earth sphere.

    V had some themes related to the F91 plan, that is a group of rebels stuck between a powerful empire and an inept Earth gov't ready for the taking. The ending was quite depressing but I actually liked it.

    G Gundam seems to be trying out the tournament formula that was found in a lot of anime during the 90's. It was fun, zany but still had a good story ending with the villain having a heartshaped hole made by summoning the Burger king. Good times.

    Wing wasn't my cup of tea. Wing Gundam had too many scenes crashing and transforming mid-crash, the signature weapons we're impractical, and I thought exchanging the Wing 0 and Epyon didn't make sense. Not to mention the obsession with peace by the same people who massacred hundreds to thousands of soldiers in the first few EPs.

    X was a bit more to my liking due to the post-apocalyptic nature. It's a bit similar to ZZ but I loved how Newtype abilities were explored.

    Turn A IMO was good. The mixture of new and old technology was something new. WWI-era planes fighting MS was fun to watch. Until now I still feel bad for Sochie.

    SEED introduced a concept I like, battery powered MS. Other than that, it seemed more of an homage to the 1st with the addition the "Understanding ending", which is ironically beating up both sides until they want to start talking about peace.

    Destiny had good stuff on the first few episodes. Gundam-jack with the Zakus being used by protagonists. The Minerva swinging on an asteroid was interesting and the part where they tried to destroy a colony to stop it from falling to earth was done better than what Wing did with the Wing 0 and the Libra fragment. Bu then Kira came back and rest was, well, the rest of Destiny.

    00 had new designs, and what I think is even better is that the pilots aren't really that skilled in the beginning (with the exception of Hallelujah) with enemy aces being able to at least survive their overpowered machines. Once the odds became a little more even, they got better and in S2 up to the movie, almost everyone got better at their signature styles, including the enemy Aces (You have to love Patrick's immortality).

    And now Age which seems to be similar to MSG, Z and ZZ, CCA, F91/Crossbone, and V all rolled into one. TBH, I only like the final battle of the 1st arc then most of the 2nd arc but not the 3rd. And as of now, I only like the series because of Flit who's now a crazy racist old man and Asemu because he's a pirate.

    What I'd like too see is more of a war between nations, and perhaps if not a female protagonist is a protagonist who isn't a pilot, someone who's just caught in the war like Saji Crossroad. Also, more conventional solid weapons and Earth-based battles might be good.

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    1. lol at the immortal patrick colasour haha.. agree with you every show has its own good and bad point.. problem is too many haters out there bitching about everything like `UC is the best, alternate universes suck` something like that.. anyway while i personally think Seed is okay despite all the hatings, i sure hate the character design.. the watery eyes and pretty faces just don´t match a gundam serie..

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    2. @Anon (Aug 22, 11:15 AM):

      On your point of impractical weapons when it comes to GW: I don't know if you feel it's a criticism you have the strongest (of the points you made), but it's one that gnaws on me, since I find it ironic that some people bring up "impractical weapons" (or impracticality in general) as a negative on a given anime (not necessarily GW) of a franchise built on the very concept of 15-20 meter-tall robots (that are piloted) supposedly being weaponry that are superior to most other weapons of warfare.

      I'm going to brush aside the real-world arguments usually brought up and just bring up a couple of things within the franchise: when considering the small profile and remote-controlled nature of bits/funnels (which--in the UC Gundam series--while generally reliant on telepathy, has been also used with automation) or even the automatic nature of GW's "mobile dolls" (which doesn't require pilots inside them), if the nature of GW's Gundam's weapons (which I think were conceptually intended as weapons of terror more-so than as weapons of warfare) gnaw on you as being impractical...

      ...How come the concept of mobile suits in general doesn't gnaw on you each time you watch or read anything related to Gundam? Wouldn't your thoughts just veer towards why MSs aren't phased out in favor of more automated/remote-controlled weaponry in any Gundam's universe (or how said remote weaponry isn't more effective when they should be as a matter of practicality)? Wouldn't your thoughts veer towards impractical any MS would be if people in the real world would try to build 18-meter tall mobile suits for such a purpose?

      Even if other Gundam anime has been able to tackle the concepts of mobile suits and mobile suit combat in a "more realistic" matter, the very concept of mobile suits are still within the realm of "impractical" and is just a basic example of "rule of cool"; a rule of cool I happen to enjoy, so I don't think too much about (let alone try to bring up too much). This is why I'm more forgiving of how Gundams past MSG have more and more powerful weapons (whether they be shields that launch from the arm and impale enemy combatants, space colony-busting twin buster rifles, or civilization-busting nanites that a certain favorite MS of mine seemingly has an infinite amount of--even though that's not why I like that MS).

      But I understand not everyone shares the same taste, and I think the arguments here on the overall subject of this blog entry amounts to that in a major part. *shrug* Though I do agree with the two cents you had on Turn A.

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    3. A little correction:

      "This is why I'm more forgiving of how Gundams past MSG have more and more powerful weapons (whether they be shields that launch from the arm and impale enemy combatants, [...])"

      I should've phrased that as "powerful and/or impractical weapons", since I believe hand-held or fixed weaponry of a beam or conventional physical projectile nature (such as bullets) are more practical than "buster shields" such as the one I described in the above quote, but that's a minor error/nitpick from my overall point.

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    4. Actually, I was thinking that the signature weapons of most of the Gundams were impractical in their own universe. The Wing's buster rifle, the Shenlong's arm and the Deathscythe's buster shield are the worst offenders IMO (I assume H-arms' ammo is standard while Quatre's filthy rich so he can get weapons made and/or shipped immediately). I think it was too much of a risk sending barely equipped units with incredibly vulnerable/few-time use weapons without support (Duo was lucky to have met Howard).

      I do see them in a new light though when you mentioned them as terror-inducing units. I've only thought of them high-performance war machines out to get OZ until now.

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  28. I think the Gundam franchise needs radical new ideas (eg Turn A) if it wants to survive. Unfortunately there are many fans who are very unforgiving when it comes to anything Gundam.

    I just hope the next Gundam series is not WW2 in space again because that's been done to death. They should be more ambitious with story and mech design too.

    Most importantly they need to strike a fine balance between younger and older viewers. Or better yet to focus on one audience rather than try to please everyone and end up losing both.

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  29. I am overman from /m/

    4chan for life!!!!

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  30. Hate to be "that guy" but Gundam 0083 was not a good example to use for the animation example as it wasn't a TV series either. It was made for video/cinema (the compilation movie at least) in the same way as Unicorn currently is. Turn A had pretty good animation for a TV series, it even won an award for it!

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  31. I mostly agree with you but I found your animation comparison just a bit skewed. To compare a TV series like AGE to a high budget OVA like Stardust Memory seems silly. A more appropriate comparison would be 00 or SEED.

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  32. 1. AGE's story is not that bad, it is just compressed into 50. But definitely a refreshing Gundam story even it is a homage to several Gundam franchises.
    2. AGE's memorable characters? The protagonists aren't memorable enough? And who can't remember Woolf and Yurin?
    3. AGE is for kids. But even so, just check out the death counts in this series. And yeah, attacking civilian cities is not violent enough, right?
    4. I have to agree with the animation. But then, some episodes have great animation.
    5. AGE's music is has the most memorable music for me.
    6. No Gundam franchise is realistic. It will still contain some magic and anti-physics formula. Making a realistic robot will just make it a sluggish mecha with V fins.
    7. Expanding the UC is like milking a milkless cow. UC is a classic, I think it should end with Unicorn.

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    1. My thoughts exactly. Well said, sir.

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    2. I forgot about Wolf, but then again, that sort of makes my point. Yurin definitely not. To the audience she was a pretty boring character who's only existence was to add some extra level of drive to Flit.

      AGE's story is so bad, the 50 episode thing is no excuse. Especially compared to the other 50 episode long series. Things could have easily moved twice as quickly as they have been.

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    3. I kinda agree except no.5. That's so exaggerated by far. Also there were 08th and 0080 which considered to be realistic enough and managed to be very memorable.

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  33. I must say that a bit of originality is overdue. I find the concept of a female protagonist interesting, and I think it's hard to deny that there hasn't been too much originality lately. Sure, 00 had a bit, but most of the stuff we've seen in the past decade has been especially unoriginal. Not to say they were all bad shows.

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    1. The fact that 00 season 1 received so much backlash from fans that it was effecting the production team shows how hypocritical the fanbase is.

      Turn A is still regarded by some fans as terrible simply because of the way it looks or the story didn't have enough action.

      Fans scream for innovation yet they still want the same old stuff.

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  34. You know I am going to sound stupid, but I always wished Code Geass (another of sunrise's works) was a Gundam show. I know it might not have done as well as a Gundam show, since it was a new ip and not chained to a franchise so they could do whatever they want. Like I wish a new anime that just finished Fate/Zero was so good, but the only bad parts of that where the first and last episode because they where chained to the Fate series as a prequel to fate stay night. Everything else it's like OMG it's Godlike, it's SO BEAUTIFUL. Anyways it Code geass wouldn't haven't to change much to be a Gundam show (Just make it a alternate centuary) but the reason they would never do that because well for one is Code Geass might not have done as well if it's a Gundam show. It would turn off people be like AWW FUCKING GUNDAM SAME SHIT WHATEVER! Also they don't want to try something new with the franchise and they want to stay in a safe place that works. They don't want to try something new since this formula works and they don't want to LOSE MONEY. Anyways crazy rambling aside it's good to see how everyone feels on the Gundam franchise.

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    1. Fate/Zero was faithful to the light novel, lol, and that includes the "bad parts" you're talking about. The only thing it really lacked was the more omniscient storytelling that was prevalent in the novel - which I think is really hard to adapt in anime. I will concede, though, that Zero is the best anime adaptation out of the Fate franchise so far, but when you have an excellent source material penned by Urobuchi Gen it's really hard to go wrong.

      Interesting point regarding Code Geass... Season 1 was great, but I thought R2 tried desperately hard to be a Gundam knock-off. The strength of the first season was that it was a character-driven story that happened to have robots that had awesome Land Spinners. In R2 more emphasis was placed on grand robot battles, and to add insult to injury battles became more dependent on the Float System which just didn't have the same entertainment potential of the Land Spinners. I'm not saying that copying Gundam is bad; rather, Geass should just have stuck to its strengths. Then again, I guess this is what happens when people try to turn a good series into a cash cow (it was just supposed to have 26 episodes), which IMO Geass is starting to become (I am not excited about the OVA).

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    2. Oh yeah totally agree with you for R2 it seems that they took most of the strategy in R1 and made it just LAZORS and then one of the scientists just whips outs new tech out of there ass and make it less about strategy more about firepower. R2 Did (Atleast for combat) felt more like recent Gundam shows. Heck even when you see Suzaku about the first or second time in the Lancelot they even called him "The White Devil" so they might have had Gundam on the back of there minds. I think they knew how to end R2 (NO DOUBT IN THAT) but they didn't know how to get there really.

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  35. >Of course this is going to mean knocking some things from the UC timeline, most notably Victory Gundam. A small price to pay
    Nope. Nope. I stopped reading right here. Forget it. Just forget it. WHy instead of this revisionary bullshit, they just expand the story past it? I mean, your dumb story takes place in UC 200, and Victory Gundam was UC 153! What's Victory Gundam's crime here, because it's still space vs Earth, or because it doesn't make enough room for Mars Zeon, because we can't have a series without them, of course.

    A nice idea, but you dropped the ball by comparing OVA animation to TV animation, expressing that Unicorn is okay, despite it's weak/nostalgia circlejerk story because of it's animation, and then suggesting that Victory Gundam should be dropped just beacuse constantly it dared take UC in a direction no one was willing. An era were they have their own problems, not constantly complaining about what Zeon's latest mobile armor is this time.

    Forget it.

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    1. It being an OVA is no excuse if in two decades they can't be bothered to even attempt the same level of detail. The AGE animation is just plane lazy. I could list of numerous shows in the past decade which had more entertaining animation.

      And congratulations on completely missing the point about Victory.

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    2. Well, fist of all, you seem to not know or realize how much detail and effort is put into OVAs. They look better than the majority of things that have come out even today! They don't come out every week for that particular reason. No, I'm not saying that AGE shouldn't be called out for art inconsistencies, but if I gathered a bunch of OVAs and compared them to shows of this year, only a handful would be able to step up in terms of art quality.

      Oh, and what did I miss about Victory? All I read about it was bitching about space tires, Lapdog. No, Victory Gundam shouldn't have to get annexed to make for this mars business, how about just writing further into the future instead of pulling a lame Frozen Teardrop move.

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    3. Thanks for your defence in Victory, but you completely forgotten about Tomino's input when he was interviewed in regards to Victory. Please do your research prior to raging.

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  36. My two cents: originality is overrated. It's not how original your concept is (btw, good luck coining something truly original now) but how you execute it. And besides, Gundam fans can be really anal when it comes to originality. These are the people who cry "RIP OFF!" one moment and then "BLASPHEMY!" the next.

    But if we really want originality in the Gundam franchise... I say Sunrise should adapt Gundam Sousei or Gunota no Onna! (here's to hoping I'm not the only one familiar with these)

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  37. Personally I think after The Origin, there should be a BAN on anything related to the OYW ever again for at least 20 years. Literally over HALF of all UC story related stuff is crammed up in that year.

    There is so much more UC! And as you said, I'd love to see a further future UC. Have you ever heard of Gaia Gear? It's an old novel by Tomino about a clone of Char in the UC220s. After Hathaway's flash, that would be a great place to start expanding out UC.

    As you said,

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  38. Wow at first I thought this whole thing and the comments were TL,DR but I read it all

    Simple solution, now Bandai roped in newer fans with 00 and AGE:

    Redo all the early UC series in new animation, not a half assed remaster like SEED, a FULL remaster for the newer generations

    As a side note kudos to all the levelheaded ppl on here who can respect how each series have its pros and cons and can respect others opinions

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    1. The thing to watch about the redos will be the Ultra UC Elitists, which will nitpick any changes that might happen when Sunrise tries to adjust the animation/scenes for new viewers LOL. The introduction of a Remade might rests on the consensus of the older fanbase. There's also the story/episodic setting, which can have an effect on how newer audience will stick watching weekly. Some designs from the original when translated to cleaner animation might also turn off the newer fans.

      One thing to think too, is that if they decided to go for weekly episodes, the flow of new quick Gunpla will be affected. New designs will fall on Gunpla Builders or manga/side stories. Though that might not be bad, the Gunplas release per month anyways.

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    2. you're not a real gundam fan unless you realize that the folks in the studios are trying their best.

      Delete
  39. Bandai/Sunrise threw away a perfectly good concept with Gunpla Builders Beginning G.

    Seriously, it could have made a great 50 episode Gundam series that attracts olders and younger viewers. Plus it wouldn't have the pretentiousness of many gundam shows that try to hide its a toy commercial.

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  40. Sunrise studio should stick to the standard Gundam-Plot. Even after 30 years and millions of fans, no one seems to understand the message that war is bad. Most of the complaints about Gundam has nothing to do with the message that having an "Us VS Them" attitude will lead to a self-perpetuating conflict.

    The truth is I sympathize strong with ZAFT and the Coordinators. Fundamentalist nuts forced them off Earth to live in the PLANTS and even after keeping to themselves, they still got nuked. Worst part is Sunrise never bothered to portray them as the victims. Both SEED and Destiny kept portraying them as the BIG BAD responsible for all the EVIL in the WORLD. Destiny almost had it right with Shinn, a pilot with a very horrible trauma from the previous war. Things went down-hill for Destiny the moment they shifted focus back to Kira (DAMN YOU BANDAI TRYING TO SELL MORE FREEDOM KITS). That said, traumatized pilots make more sense than accidental pilots. Pilots with a background connect more with reality as opposed to Amuro-types who accidentally become pilots, which can only happen in a male's wet dream power trip.

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  41. Rebooting UC franchise? Can it be a good idea?

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    1. SEED was a Reboot of the UC franchise with a different spin on it to attract younger viewers and reel in older ones who didn't want to predict everything going on.

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  42. Alright, so here are my thoughts after reading this. I believe that Gundam AGE had a really good concept. I was a big fan of the whole 'three generation' idea. For me, that is what makes the series unique and also is what makes the viewers stay tune for more. As the series went on, they did a pretty good job with the transition of the three eras. What they did wrong though was the fact that they only focused on quite a few character, but I disagree with your statement that AGE didn't have memorable characters. First of all, Mr. Woolf Enneacle and Mr. Grodek Ainoa were one of the best "big bro/senpai" type characters I've seen in the entirety of Gundam..,and there were also character deaths that made many of us cry, like Yurin's and Lu's deaths, but yes there were a lot of useless characters that stole the show for a while but then left as if they weren't even there, not to mention Girrard Spriggan, also characters that just remain on the background like Odeck, Derek, and some other people. So yeah, Gundam AGE had a good story but not enough character quality to back it up. And on maturity, I believe that Gundam AGE was one of the most dramatic war Animes I've ever seen, and it's far too dramatic to be deemed a kid's show. As to the animation, I know that Sunrise isn't doing their best but I believe they have their own reasons as well. As to expanding UC, I believe it shouldn't be expanded furthermore but rather just fill out the gaps in between the existing stories.., and no, I do not believe that rebooting the entire UC would be a good idea.., only yht original ans Zeta deserve such reboots. That is all. Thanks to everyone who bothered reading this.

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    1. And I do believe that recycling concepts is necessary since it wouldn't be Gundam without Gundam's signature concepts, but it would be better if these concepts were presented in a different manner.

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  43. One of the bissest problems I had with AGE was the formula with people dying. Almost all of the deaths of characters of focus have been drawn-out, and over-dramaticized for a charcter who we were only really introduced to for a few episodes. I can understand if the producers wanted to give a little more time for some of the lesser characters, considering how much time they had to finish up each arc, but doing it too much begins to take away some meaning. I think the only other problem I had with AGE would have to be the pacing of it all. In my opinion, I think the first arc moved at a slow-ish pace, the second arc jumped forward a lot, and the third arc just seemed to sort of stand still until they revealed the whole EXA-DB plot point (which for a time, I thought they were about to forget about for a bit).

    Is AGE Perfect? No. I would say AGE fits right around Okay. There are a lot of better series out there to watch that I would recommend to new people. However, despite it's faults I wouldn't say it's a blight on society. It did have some memorable characters. I have to agree with 00nicholsz that Grodeck and Woolf have been some of the better characters in the series as a whole. Stuff always seemed to be more badass when "Captain Sideburns", and "Urufu" were given the spotlight. For example, Grodeck locked a couple people in a closet in the colony before it blew, but we never find out what happened to them (insert colony core explanation, blah). It seemed like Grodeck just jacked the ship, and merc'd two people in the process. Lol what the hell, Grodeck?! The show isn't a serious watch, but it seems to become more enjoyable if you dont take it seriously. Make a drinking game out of it.

    About the future of the rest of the Gundam, and UC, its difficult to try to be too original when it comes down to it. As others stated before, Gundam isn't Gundam unless it includes any of the following: Character finds Gundam, Gundam fights rival, decisive battle occurs, Gundam gets an upgrade of some kind, final battle occurs, Gundam fights rival for final time. The directors make their own little nuances that make each one different, but it pretty much stays the same. It really all comes down to who produces the next series to determine originality. I agree with certain aspects that we could use a female protagonist, quit the 'pacifism' sub-plot, or just flat-out try something ambitious. I am also skeptical about those kind of things however.

    When it comes to female protagonists, it always seems possible that a the charcter could become a 'moe' factor who might detract from the plot in an effort to drive up sales. When it comes to the pacifism, despite how much it is overused, it is too naive for a war story, and now looks like it is just used to ensure that the main character becomes immortal. It may be the trend now, but it can be done differently. Unicorn gets props to the trend by having some rationality to that kind of mindset, but there are more powerful ways you could do it. For exapmle, a character could have a change of heart after everyone he wants to save keeps getting hurt or something along those lines. Trying something completely different is fine, but of course, needs to be done correctly or it gets the fans angry. I liked G Gundam, but I keep hearing mixed feelings about it still to this day. S1 of 00 was quite different and executed pretty well, but it seemed to be lost on S2 when it became more like the other series in the franchise.

    There's not much we can do on this end, but I am hopeful of new stuff for the future, and I don't know what Sunrise will decide to do. I'll still watch it though, if only to at least say I have seen it just like everyone else.

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  44. To be honest, ever gundam series tends to go very off course during the last 15 episodes. This is nothing new. While most old school fans of the meta series would hate me, I'm a huge fan of SEED and 00 and not Zeta. Granted I could never explain SEED Destiny in a way to make up for the colossal failure but remember that Bandai is a business. They make anime series to sell the model kits. They still make Power Rangers/ Kaimen Rider to sell toys, Nintendo still has its Pokemon Series to sell new games, and every few years we see a new transformers series to sell toys as well.

    Age was a series to pick up younger generations, and I can assume that the majority of the people who commented on this posting is not between the ages of 6-12. Making crappy series like AGE is so that the Gundam franchise can last another 30 years.

    So what would I like to see in a new Gundam series? I'd really love to see a Sengouku era (Samurai) but within space. Instead of fighting for territories in Japan, I'd wanna see different factions fighting over space territory and colonies. A series like that would have a lot of characters that viewers can favor over others. Some factions can join together with others but ultimately its a story about space unification and defeating one great evil. It gives the meta series a fresh new look at space warfare other than the colonies (Spacenoids) vs earth scenario which has been beaten to death.

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    1. i think it´s about our age / childhood. you see, i watched wing and seed in a local tv channel when i was in elementary school. no matter how people say those series were crap (i dont even remember the details of the plot haha, too compilcated for a child show i´d say) wing zero and its giant rifle will always be one of my childhood hero. as for uc series like the so-called the best zeta, i don´t watch it because i cant stand the outdated animation. im not saying that its bad or anything but i think there´s a lot of gundam fans like me out there. and in a few years some people will say age is a great show exactly because the reason i stated above, and i think that´s the point why age is made somewhat childish

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  45. I want to see a Seed Astray-style Gundam series where the protagonists aren't trying to save the world but more worried about things like scavenging for food, parts, etc. Kind of like Cowboy Bebop. Gundam X also had the right idea.

    Make it an adventure story rather than war story.

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  46. >And yes, I know that animating action sometimes requires odd things to be >done but this horribleness was apparently immediately...

    I think you answered your own question here - pulling out individual screenshots from dynamic animation sequences does look absurd, because it's not supposed to be an individual image, only the motion it's a part of is seen and registered by the viewer. It's fair enough if you'd like to say you still think the animation quality is sub-par regardless, but using screenshots as examples doesn't make sense, really.

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    ReplyDelete

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