I realize you're simply giving out your opinion, and I appreciate that. But if you also meant that a matter-of-fact way (as in it's more than just a matter of taste), then why are they discontinued? If they're that good in a matter-of-fact way, why aren't more HCM-Pro figures being produced over RDs and MBs?
Personally, while I like that the HCM-Pro figures are set to a scale and are very detailed for their smaller size (especially compared to their slightly-larger MSiA counterparts), aren't they essentially already-assembled Gunpla (right down to the plastic used)?
I like the articulation many of 'em seem to sport, I like the details, I like that--for pros in Gunpla customization--HCM-Pros can be more easily modded than an MSiA/GFF/RD (since those use plastic closer to what most action figures use), and I like that there's a wide selection for those who like the Universal Century and Cosmic Era MSs, with well-done accessories for each (such as one of the Zaku IIs having cracker grenades; something MG and HG Zakus skip over nowadays).
But the selection only largely covers the UC and CE units, while other AUs only get their main units covered. Compare that with recent RD [Side MS] releases where plenty of main units and grunts are released (especially in the AC/GW area as of late), and the essential details are there, even in it's accessories. And while WalkerMachine managed to bring out excellent detail and masterfully composited these HCM-Pro figures, others may still find them to be too small for their tastes (which is even an occasional complaint among 1/144-scaled Gunpla).
And if they're essentially mini-Gunpla (which is the impression I get from them), then the rule many hold on not messing around with the model too much then holds here as well, as excessive use can break the plastic. Compare that to RDs (and MSiAs, and GFFs) that use plastic that's closer to what many other figures use, and are durable enough for a person to mess around with the figure's articulation; have it in one pose and then change it to another as often as wanted. You could do that with Gunpla as well (and I do), but the plastic used is fragile enough to break if done too much or too carelessly (as was what happened to me a couple of times before), or break if there's an accident (this happened to me as well).
Now maybe I'm being a little harsh on HCM-Pro figures as a person who doesn't own any (and probably should to better judge the lineup as a whole), but since I kept getting the impression that they are essentially miniature Gunpla with prices comparable to some Robot Damashii and Gundam Fix Figuration figures (which is especially true nowadays, given that the HCM-Pro figures are discontinued), I never bothered. There are plenty of HCM-Pro figures that interested me into thinking twice about that, but many of them are either available in other lineups of figures or as Gunpla (which can be just as detailed, especially in the MG and RG lineups), and I usually take that route.
But if you and/or others like HCM-Pro more than Robot Damashii and other figure lineups, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. *shrug* In expressing yours, however, if you were also wanting to convince others, I'd sooner recommend looking for review pictures of them unaltered for reference than I would citing these modded versions (amazing as they are, especially in the composited images).
But I know we'll likely just agree do disagree. *shrug*
@Siroh: Quite a statement for somebody who does not own any HCM Pro figures... I own 150+ HCM Pro figures, 100+ Robot Damashii figures and have built 200+ various gundam models (HG, RG, MG and PG) and in the past i had a few MSIA, FIX and CR figures. And yes i did some comparative revieuws between RD and hcm pro, mainly for the 00 gundams, but in dutch, so you won't really understand. The 2 main arguments against HCM Pro are size and price.They are smaller then RD's that is undenieble, but way more detailed, way better paint jobs, better designed accessories and for the most way more articulated (notable exceptions being RD AGE-1 and gundam 00 which have very good articulation) . As for price, they are quite expensive, but so are RD's as the latest releases are the same price as their 1/100 MG counterparts. As the HCM Pro line closed you can now find most at bargain prices if you look hard enough. Probably the saddest day of my collector life.
@ anonimous: Go back to kindergarten and come back when you grow up.
Yeah, it is quite a statement from someone who doesn't have one, I'll admit to that.
Your points on price are a fair one. The best I could counter with essentially brings up your point on that it's where you look in order to get the best price. Some of the places I see do have RDs and their MG and HCM-Pro counterparts (if any specific RD has one; not all have one for MGs and/or HCM-Pro) are comparable in price. I did quickly look over at some places very quick, and in some cases like Hobby Link Japan, there are some HCM-Pro figures still available at a very low cost, and one of which I might consider getting.
As far as size, I brought it up simply for the sake of discussion more-so than as a personal objection of mine; if it actually was one, I wouldn't have MSiAs and I might not have bothered with 1/144s of any grade. HCM-Pros essentially prove that size doesn't matter when it comes to detail. I can't argue against it when I see review pictures of them unaltered and these photos of them after customization. They look great after being customized and composited into photos.
And on the point of detail, when I raised it, it wasn't really a case when I did mention that all they usually do is fill in the essential details (just short of panel lines, not unlike the U.S. MSiA releases). Personally, that's good enough for me, because even though I do take the occasional Gunpla/Gundam figure-related photo, I don't make dioramas and I haven't tried to make a convincing case to make them look like actual 18-meter-tall mecha. I haven't even done them with my MGs.
But yeah, if you even compare RDs to GFFs (even later ones that require putting on decals), they have more detail than GFFs. (Though in the case of Hajime Katoki's Wing Gundam, the Tamashii Web Shop Exclusive RD Wing Gundam ver. EW--which I do have along with it's GFF counterpart--has more accurate proportions and beam saber color, plus verniers on the Wing are included, but GFF Wing has decals and details in the skirt armor.)
The closest I can go in mentioning articulation about HCM-Pro is do compare photos on review websites that showcase the articulation, and from what I usually see in either HCM-Pro's case or RD's is that both would satisfy me in this area no problem, much like how Extended MSiA figures have. I will note though that the RD Turn A seems to have a better time getting into a kneeling pose than my MG Turn A does (and both arguably have the same detail, even if different proportions and slightly different details here and there).
My mention of Turn A brings me to the subject of the availability of certain units as tangible products (whether they be statues, figures, models, etc.). I'm going to assume you like 00 a lot as well as Universal Century (MSG, 08th, ZZ, CA, etc.). It's all well and great that you like them, and HCM-Pro manages to have plenty of UC, 00, and SEED MSs for those who like them. I like the UC MSs. The SEED MSs (I'm not commenting on the anime) aren't bad either, and I don't mind the 00 MSs...
...But what about Wing? What about X? What about Turn A? Whether you're a fan of any of 'em or not, I like 'em. I especially like the MSs from GW and TAG, right down to the grunt units. But HCM-Pro only has six of the main GW MSs (only one of them isn't a Gundam). None from X. None from TAG. So far, Robot Damashii has around ten or so either released or upcoming for Wing, up to and including two grunt suits (excluding variants, and the Aries was never an MSiA or HCM-Pro). There's at least one for X upcoming, and four for Turn A (excluding variants like Corin's Kapool and the MB versions of Turn A and Turn X).
If you're a fan of any of these units, chances are you'd have to hunt down the series/non-grade lines (especially for GX and TAG), HGs (for X), MGs (for TAG), or MSiAs (which I don't believe GX got any). For an NG, the FLAT has amazing articulation; pulling off a natural knee pose even many modern MGs wish they could do, and if you painted the right way, can really have an effect (though not everyone's a pro; mistakes can be made, whether human-made or factory-made). SUMOs are only 1/144 and 1/100 Gunpla. There's no actual 1/100 Turn X. There's no Daughtress, no Jenice (rare limited-produced models aside), etc.
And that's my biggest argument right there; above comparison of the plastics use (in how possibly fragile each can be), above price, above articulation... There may be plenty of products available on both sides, but what if your taste conforms to liking certain units that hardly get mainstream releases as tangible products (let alone figures and models)? That's why I got that horrible MSiA Leo and that superior RD Leo; it's not popular compared to the likes of a Zaku II, but I love the Leo design. I like the GW designs and Katoki's redesigns of the first five Gundams are hard to come by in figure form, and they were hard to come by in model form until they started coming out in MG form since September of two years ago. A Gunpla or RD figure of TAG's WaDom, Cannon Illefuto, Mahiroo... Any of 'em would be nice, but that's just wishful thinking when TAG isn't anywhere near as popular as other Gundam anime are.
You made some great points in making the case of HCM-Pros being better figures than RDs in your view (especially given your huge collection; you must have a heck of a budget for Gunpla), and pointed out I can't actually agree or disagree until I have at least one or a few of my own for a more actual comparison (rather than seeing photos and reading other people's comments about it and seeing video reviews about one or two).
But don't chew out Robot Damashii; they're still good figures themselves in my view (at least good enough for you to own over a hundred of 'em), they get the essentials down right (at least for the few I have; my Gunpla and figure collection is a heck of a lot smaller than yours), and some of the selection (whether released or yet to be) appeals to me very much.
So I guess we'll agree to disagree to some extent. At least we can do that; it's a lot better than others who needlessly hound on RD (and especially people who prefer RDs) in favor of something else (usually MGs), usually causing tidal waves of needless ad hominem attacks perpetrated by both sides.
Dafug, Oh my....
ReplyDeleteSweet pics. I love the compositing.
ReplyDeleteNow you see the greatness of HCM Pro figures :). Robot Damashii is childsplay compared to these guys :)
ReplyDelete@Firefox:
DeleteI realize you're simply giving out your opinion, and I appreciate that. But if you also meant that a matter-of-fact way (as in it's more than just a matter of taste), then why are they discontinued? If they're that good in a matter-of-fact way, why aren't more HCM-Pro figures being produced over RDs and MBs?
Personally, while I like that the HCM-Pro figures are set to a scale and are very detailed for their smaller size (especially compared to their slightly-larger MSiA counterparts), aren't they essentially already-assembled Gunpla (right down to the plastic used)?
I like the articulation many of 'em seem to sport, I like the details, I like that--for pros in Gunpla customization--HCM-Pros can be more easily modded than an MSiA/GFF/RD (since those use plastic closer to what most action figures use), and I like that there's a wide selection for those who like the Universal Century and Cosmic Era MSs, with well-done accessories for each (such as one of the Zaku IIs having cracker grenades; something MG and HG Zakus skip over nowadays).
But the selection only largely covers the UC and CE units, while other AUs only get their main units covered. Compare that with recent RD [Side MS] releases where plenty of main units and grunts are released (especially in the AC/GW area as of late), and the essential details are there, even in it's accessories. And while WalkerMachine managed to bring out excellent detail and masterfully composited these HCM-Pro figures, others may still find them to be too small for their tastes (which is even an occasional complaint among 1/144-scaled Gunpla).
And if they're essentially mini-Gunpla (which is the impression I get from them), then the rule many hold on not messing around with the model too much then holds here as well, as excessive use can break the plastic. Compare that to RDs (and MSiAs, and GFFs) that use plastic that's closer to what many other figures use, and are durable enough for a person to mess around with the figure's articulation; have it in one pose and then change it to another as often as wanted.
You could do that with Gunpla as well (and I do), but the plastic used is fragile enough to break if done too much or too carelessly (as was what happened to me a couple of times before), or break if there's an accident (this happened to me as well).
Now maybe I'm being a little harsh on HCM-Pro figures as a person who doesn't own any (and probably should to better judge the lineup as a whole), but since I kept getting the impression that they are essentially miniature Gunpla with prices comparable to some Robot Damashii and Gundam Fix Figuration figures (which is especially true nowadays, given that the HCM-Pro figures are discontinued), I never bothered. There are plenty of HCM-Pro figures that interested me into thinking twice about that, but many of them are either available in other lineups of figures or as Gunpla (which can be just as detailed, especially in the MG and RG lineups), and I usually take that route.
But if you and/or others like HCM-Pro more than Robot Damashii and other figure lineups, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. *shrug* In expressing yours, however, if you were also wanting to convince others, I'd sooner recommend looking for review pictures of them unaltered for reference than I would citing these modded versions (amazing as they are, especially in the composited images).
But I know we'll likely just agree do disagree. *shrug*
@Firefox : What you said is quite ironic considering how childish you are.
Deleteaah....my favourite ova...=)
ReplyDelete@Siroh: Quite a statement for somebody who does not own any HCM Pro figures...
ReplyDeleteI own 150+ HCM Pro figures, 100+ Robot Damashii figures and have built 200+ various gundam models (HG, RG, MG and PG) and in the past i had a few MSIA, FIX and CR figures. And yes i did some comparative revieuws between RD and hcm pro, mainly for the 00 gundams, but in dutch, so you won't really understand.
The 2 main arguments against HCM Pro are size and price.They are smaller then RD's that is undenieble, but way more detailed, way better paint jobs, better designed accessories and for the most way more articulated (notable exceptions being RD AGE-1 and gundam 00 which have very good articulation) . As for price, they are quite expensive, but so are RD's as the latest releases are the same price as their 1/100 MG counterparts. As the HCM Pro line closed you can now find most at bargain prices if you look hard enough. Probably the saddest day of my collector life.
@ anonimous: Go back to kindergarten and come back when you grow up.
Lol, you said RD are kids play, yet you said you're collecting RD and have over 100 of them? Kindergarten kids can lie better than that.
Delete@Firefox:
DeleteYeah, it is quite a statement from someone who doesn't have one, I'll admit to that.
Your points on price are a fair one. The best I could counter with essentially brings up your point on that it's where you look in order to get the best price. Some of the places I see do have RDs and their MG and HCM-Pro counterparts (if any specific RD has one; not all have one for MGs and/or HCM-Pro) are comparable in price. I did quickly look over at some places very quick, and in some cases like Hobby Link Japan, there are some HCM-Pro figures still available at a very low cost, and one of which I might consider getting.
As far as size, I brought it up simply for the sake of discussion more-so than as a personal objection of mine; if it actually was one, I wouldn't have MSiAs and I might not have bothered with 1/144s of any grade. HCM-Pros essentially prove that size doesn't matter when it comes to detail. I can't argue against it when I see review pictures of them unaltered and these photos of them after customization. They look great after being customized and composited into photos.
And on the point of detail, when I raised it, it wasn't really a case when I did mention that all they usually do is fill in the essential details (just short of panel lines, not unlike the U.S. MSiA releases). Personally, that's good enough for me, because even though I do take the occasional Gunpla/Gundam figure-related photo, I don't make dioramas and I haven't tried to make a convincing case to make them look like actual 18-meter-tall mecha. I haven't even done them with my MGs.
But yeah, if you even compare RDs to GFFs (even later ones that require putting on decals), they have more detail than GFFs. (Though in the case of Hajime Katoki's Wing Gundam, the Tamashii Web Shop Exclusive RD Wing Gundam ver. EW--which I do have along with it's GFF counterpart--has more accurate proportions and beam saber color, plus verniers on the Wing are included, but GFF Wing has decals and details in the skirt armor.)
The closest I can go in mentioning articulation about HCM-Pro is do compare photos on review websites that showcase the articulation, and from what I usually see in either HCM-Pro's case or RD's is that both would satisfy me in this area no problem, much like how Extended MSiA figures have. I will note though that the RD Turn A seems to have a better time getting into a kneeling pose than my MG Turn A does (and both arguably have the same detail, even if different proportions and slightly different details here and there).
@Firefox:
Delete(Continued.)
My mention of Turn A brings me to the subject of the availability of certain units as tangible products (whether they be statues, figures, models, etc.). I'm going to assume you like 00 a lot as well as Universal Century (MSG, 08th, ZZ, CA, etc.). It's all well and great that you like them, and HCM-Pro manages to have plenty of UC, 00, and SEED MSs for those who like them. I like the UC MSs. The SEED MSs (I'm not commenting on the anime) aren't bad either, and I don't mind the 00 MSs...
...But what about Wing? What about X? What about Turn A? Whether you're a fan of any of 'em or not, I like 'em. I especially like the MSs from GW and TAG, right down to the grunt units. But HCM-Pro only has six of the main GW MSs (only one of them isn't a Gundam). None from X. None from TAG. So far, Robot Damashii has around ten or so either released or upcoming for Wing, up to and including two grunt suits (excluding variants, and the Aries was never an MSiA or HCM-Pro). There's at least one for X upcoming, and four for Turn A (excluding variants like Corin's Kapool and the MB versions of Turn A and Turn X).
If you're a fan of any of these units, chances are you'd have to hunt down the series/non-grade lines (especially for GX and TAG), HGs (for X), MGs (for TAG), or MSiAs (which I don't believe GX got any). For an NG, the FLAT has amazing articulation; pulling off a natural knee pose even many modern MGs wish they could do, and if you painted the right way, can really have an effect (though not everyone's a pro; mistakes can be made, whether human-made or factory-made). SUMOs are only 1/144 and 1/100 Gunpla. There's no actual 1/100 Turn X. There's no Daughtress, no Jenice (rare limited-produced models aside), etc.
And that's my biggest argument right there; above comparison of the plastics use (in how possibly fragile each can be), above price, above articulation... There may be plenty of products available on both sides, but what if your taste conforms to liking certain units that hardly get mainstream releases as tangible products (let alone figures and models)? That's why I got that horrible MSiA Leo and that superior RD Leo; it's not popular compared to the likes of a Zaku II, but I love the Leo design. I like the GW designs and Katoki's redesigns of the first five Gundams are hard to come by in figure form, and they were hard to come by in model form until they started coming out in MG form since September of two years ago. A Gunpla or RD figure of TAG's WaDom, Cannon Illefuto, Mahiroo... Any of 'em would be nice, but that's just wishful thinking when TAG isn't anywhere near as popular as other Gundam anime are.
You made some great points in making the case of HCM-Pros being better figures than RDs in your view (especially given your huge collection; you must have a heck of a budget for Gunpla), and pointed out I can't actually agree or disagree until I have at least one or a few of my own for a more actual comparison (rather than seeing photos and reading other people's comments about it and seeing video reviews about one or two).
But don't chew out Robot Damashii; they're still good figures themselves in my view (at least good enough for you to own over a hundred of 'em), they get the essentials down right (at least for the few I have; my Gunpla and figure collection is a heck of a lot smaller than yours), and some of the selection (whether released or yet to be) appeals to me very much.
So I guess we'll agree to disagree to some extent. At least we can do that; it's a lot better than others who needlessly hound on RD (and especially people who prefer RDs) in favor of something else (usually MGs), usually causing tidal waves of needless ad hominem attacks perpetrated by both sides.
FUCK YER!!! XD
ReplyDeleteNice pics, too bad most of them look obviously plastic :\
ReplyDelete